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PARLIAMENTARY REPORTS
16 January 2008
Danny Alexander
speaks at debate on National Insurance Numbers and Illegal Immigrants
Speaking at the Opposition Day debate, Liberal Democrat Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary Danny Alexander called on Work and Pensions Secretary Peter Hain to carry out an investigation into how over 6000 illegal workers had obtained national insurance numbers. Mr Alexander said that this was vital to ensuring confidence in the system itself and in the light of Peter Hain’s ‘incompetence’ over undeclared donations, also said that competence was required in order to achieve this.
Danny Alexander said:
“The Secretary of State said that processes were now in place to ensure that workers who are here illegally cannot apply for or receive national insurance numbers. What checks have been made to find out what proportion of those in the security industry gained their national insurance numbers before July 2006, when the new system was brought in, and what proportion received them after that date? That answer is key to establishing whether the system has changed in reality.”
“I think that the Department needs to find out as soon as possible when the national insurance numbers in the 6,653 cases that have been highlighted were allocated, and tell the House what proportions received their numbers before and after July 2006. I realise that the task might be labour or IT-intensive, but it is important to shed light on whether the existing checks work or not. I hope that the Minister will feel able to commit the Government to doing that.”
“Clearly, national insurance numbers have been issued in the past to people who were not entitled to receive them because of their immigration status - in other words, because they were not entitled to be in the United Kingdom. I confess that I do not know what this would involve, but what steps is the Department taking to ensure that those numbers are revoked and removed from the system and people cannot continue to use them in a way that, while not in itself sufficient to gain them employment, is nevertheless part of the process of gaining employment and might, in some cases, lull employers into a false confidence that those with whom they were dealing had a legitimate right to work or indeed to claim benefit.”
“Possession of a national insurance number is an essential starting point for a benefit claim. If the number has been obtained through the proper procedure, even if the person concerned is not entitled to it, that will allow the person to enter the process of claiming, although other information would have to be provided - in this instance, fraudulently - for the claim to be made. If, however, there is still a loophole, a problem, a mistake or incompetence in the system for the allocation of national insurance numbers, there are potential implications for the benefits system that need to be examined. I make no stronger claim than that.”
“This important issue must be addressed in a balanced manner. Above and beyond the short-term issue of the damage done to Secretary of State’s political credibility by recent revelations - it is very dear to his heart but it is none the less short term - this is a long-term issue that needs to be resolved, whether by him or by whoever follows him, should that eventuality arise. The Government need to do much more to ensure that there is confidence in the system. I have suggested that some investigations at least need to be carried out. For there to be confidence in the system, competence is required, including from the Secretary of State and his ministerial team.”
Click here to read Danny Alexander’s speech in full
The Liberal Democrats supported the Conservative motion but it was defeated by 242 votes by 310.
Speaking at the Opposition Day debate, Liberal Democrat Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary Danny Alexander called on Work and Pensions Secretary Peter Hain to carry out an investigation into how over 6000 illegal workers had obtained national insurance numbers. Mr Alexander said that this was vital to ensuring confidence in the system itself and in the light of Peter Hain’s ‘incompetence’ over undeclared donations, also said that competence was required in order to achieve this.
Danny Alexander said:
“The Secretary of State said that processes were now in place to ensure that workers who are here illegally cannot apply for or receive national insurance numbers. What checks have been made to find out what proportion of those in the security industry gained their national insurance numbers before July 2006, when the new system was brought in, and what proportion received them after that date? That answer is key to establishing whether the system has changed in reality.”
“I think that the Department needs to find out as soon as possible when the national insurance numbers in the 6,653 cases that have been highlighted were allocated, and tell the House what proportions received their numbers before and after July 2006. I realise that the task might be labour or IT-intensive, but it is important to shed light on whether the existing checks work or not. I hope that the Minister will feel able to commit the Government to doing that.”
“Clearly, national insurance numbers have been issued in the past to people who were not entitled to receive them because of their immigration status - in other words, because they were not entitled to be in the United Kingdom. I confess that I do not know what this would involve, but what steps is the Department taking to ensure that those numbers are revoked and removed from the system and people cannot continue to use them in a way that, while not in itself sufficient to gain them employment, is nevertheless part of the process of gaining employment and might, in some cases, lull employers into a false confidence that those with whom they were dealing had a legitimate right to work or indeed to claim benefit.”
“Possession of a national insurance number is an essential starting point for a benefit claim. If the number has been obtained through the proper procedure, even if the person concerned is not entitled to it, that will allow the person to enter the process of claiming, although other information would have to be provided - in this instance, fraudulently - for the claim to be made. If, however, there is still a loophole, a problem, a mistake or incompetence in the system for the allocation of national insurance numbers, there are potential implications for the benefits system that need to be examined. I make no stronger claim than that.”
“This important issue must be addressed in a balanced manner. Above and beyond the short-term issue of the damage done to Secretary of State’s political credibility by recent revelations - it is very dear to his heart but it is none the less short term - this is a long-term issue that needs to be resolved, whether by him or by whoever follows him, should that eventuality arise. The Government need to do much more to ensure that there is confidence in the system. I have suggested that some investigations at least need to be carried out. For there to be confidence in the system, competence is required, including from the Secretary of State and his ministerial team.”
Click here to read Danny Alexander’s speech in full
The Liberal Democrats supported the Conservative motion but it was defeated by 242 votes by 310.
Applicability: this item refers to the UK.
